The fraction of your transformer's power lost in the track will therefore be well under 10 percent, since it is proportional to the voltage drop. The transition section (#12040) allows you to connect conventional O Gauge track to FasTrack. From 25 Watts to 275 Watts, a Lionel transformer could be found for every power requirment from simple circles of track to extensive railroads. These can all have uses for your layout. Understanding Electrical Supplies and Controls. Dave: That certainly qualifies, don't forget the anti-gun lobbyist with the picket sign's. There was a video by Mike Reagan from Lionel about better smoke output from a chopped wave transformer, but the pure sine wave didn't cause any operational issues. 10 Easy Ways to Improve a Christmas Train Display, Compatibility of Different Model Train Brands, How to Build and Wire Reverse Loops for Model Trains, Wiring a Model Railroad for Block Operation, Wire Gauge Standards for Model Train Layouts, Model Train Track Grades and Maximum Grade Issues. A small set that came with track, transformer, etc. This has the added advantage that Lionel TMCC (command control) will operate correctly. To my knowledge, you should have no compatibility issues with a pure sine wave track feed with any major brand locomotive. As the kit grows and you start putting in turnouts (or the point switching systems) to move your train from one track to another track, you will not only need more than 1 transformer, you will. While those locomotives and their sound systems are designed to operate using conventional transformers like your ZW, digital controllers are needed to activate additional features like special sound effects and coupler activation. Here are a few: --The Lionel Fastrack Book, by Robert Schleicher. Pretty much suffered the same fate, too. Been there, done that. A bigger transformer is better and always looks nicer too! (8 lights X 20 watts = 160 watts). He directs production at Lionel, the premier model train manufacturer, and he istheformer president of theConrail HistoricalSociety. The article you suggest would be a daunting task, as you'd have to gather virtually every known locomotive and transformer! Reverse the above if planning to run mostly Lionel and go with the Lionel command system, either the full Legacy system or the upcoming CAB-1L and just add a Track Power Controller and a cable to run most MTH engines in conventional with the Lionel systems. If you like fixing things, fixing an old transformer is rewarding. When you get DCS, keep the blocks and run the 2 sets off 2 Fixed channels out. If you are wiring with a common rail for your blocks, then keeping the common rail the same color all the time while changing the color for the other rail in each block is also an option. DCC is less common in starter sets, but some are available. M3103. When running a mixed bag train show with new and old trains of mixed types such as Loinel and MTH which is better? Remember, the only silly question is the one that you did not ask. And if the power supply does fail, it is best not to repair it on your own. A. Get DIY project ideas and easy-to-follow crafts to help you spruce up your space. These are all good, dependable transformers from the postwar era that are easy to find today, have adequate wattages ranging from 90-270 watts, have a circuit breaker for safety and have a whistle controller. They give a great deal of power in a single handled transformer, and if you run trains along with another person, it can be more convenient for you to both have a smaller transformer than for two people to huddle around a larger KW or ZW transformer and share its handles. With the ever-increasing amount of small electronics in today's sophisticated models, this protection is more important than ever. The wire can also be purchased as solid or stranded. Ok our layout is 10 x 20 = 200 sq ft x 2 = 400 watts. Lionel Ready-to-Play is a large sized train that's made to be affordable and easy-to-use for both kids and adults alike. 5 years of Classic Toy Trains at your fingertips! The transformer, when operated at the lower frequency, may . A bigger transformer is better and always looks nicer too! These sets use a remote control which talks directly to a receiver in the locomotive. But after a little while, you will likely want your train to do more, and youll start thinking along these lines: --It sure would be neat if it did more than run in a circle. You don't want to try to solder even Number 16 gauge wire right to your rails, however. It also has an optional bell sound that can be turned on and off. --The O Gauge Railroading Primer, by Christopher Ritchie. In this case Id go with a postwar TW 175 watt transformer. By clicking Accept All Cookies, you agree to the storing of cookies on your device to enhance site navigation, analyze site usage, and assist in our marketing efforts. Frankly, its hard to go wrong with either of these transformers, especially at todays prices. The 1044 is just a 1033 in a different case. Now, I am going to make a suggesstion that you use a larger diameter curve for your corners. They give a true 180 watts and have excellent electronic breakers. Again, an independent power supply and distribution bus is a good idea for your switches. Keeping in mind that I will likely continue to add to the layout as my addiction develops! Add a PW dual motor F3 (4 amps) with 5 lighted cars (another 10 bulbs - 1 amp) and you are cooking (9 amps). For Lionel power the 45 watts is good for a 4 by 8 as a rule of thumb to compensate poor track you just use more feeders. Use this index to see additional details about the individual transformers issued by Lionel during the post-war period. But Lionel now produces four Track Expansion Sets, which expand this basic loop into something more exciting. Lionel uses red and black (red always for the center rail, black for the two outer rails) as a standard in its instructions and most 3-Rail O Gauge layouts are probably wired this way. Lionel makes two expansion sets for this purpose. Please see our article on Fastrack here for more information. Dave, you're so eloquent and inspiring - my undergraduate degree was in American Studies, now I'm in charge of among other things all our college's technology - also self-taught.. Hello All: Re: Dave Farquhar, Dave you left out sense of humor Regards Steve. This will solve the slowdown problem. It is much easier to be ready ahead of time then to have to do some changes afterwards. All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. First, a few general notes about choosing wire. Fortunately, there is an easy way to tell these cars apart, and the key is the numbers Lionel assigns to them. The smaller of the two is # 12028, which turns your oval into this: There is also the larger 12031 plan, which has a couple extra straight track pieces included, creating this: Even better, one or more of the expansion sets can be combined to create even more interesting track layouts. The farther from the transformer the more resistance in the rails and your engine will slow down. The car on the left is scale, and the one on the right is the classic, underscale size. Theres nothing inherently wrong with them, though I would shy away from the smaller transformers that are less than 75 watts, including the modern CW-40. You should always, always test your transformer for safetybefore you set it up, andunplug it when youre not using it. This drawing illustrates all of the key functionality of a Lionel KW transformer. If you found this post informative or helpful, please share it! I've read that it is good practice to add feeders every 10 sections of track or sothat seems like a lot but I suppose that beats having "dead" spots in the track. Retrofitting a subway line into existing benchwork - and are subway sets still being made? 10 Easy Ways to Improve a Christmas Train Display, Wiring a Model Railroad for Block Operation, How to Build and Wire Reverse Loops for Model Trains, How to Choose the Right Transformer for Your Model Trains, Compatibility of Different Model Train Brands, HO Scale Track Plans for Model Train Layouts, buildings, streets, and other scenic accessories. I am assuming that your starter set came with either o27, brown ties, or 031, black ties, track and it runs well as is. Although all Lionel cars operate on O Gauge track, the bodies of the cars are made in two slightly different sizes. If your going to run anything more that what came with the set then you should probably upgrade to something a little bigger. At fifteen volts which is about as much as I can put to it without jumping the track, it pulls an average of 2.5 amps, or 37.5 watts--less than one tenth of the transformer capacity of 400. If you add feeders to the track at the farthest point (remember to get the same wire to the same rails) you will not slow down at the farthest point. These small power supplies are designed to supply a few amps of power. Problem with Rail King Protocol Sounds reversing unit, My D-190 Back in Action After Move to to NC, Caboose Identification - late era vintage, Continuing Saga Newtown Hardwrare House WIP. Members enjoy 15% off any purchase in our store. Max Watts on one TIU is 720W. Just connect the jumper wires to the same connections on the back of your transformer as your original connections, and make sure that the wires are not crossed. Heavier insulation not only adds to the cost of the wire but also makes it harder to bend. Starter sets almost always include a power supply along with the track and train. Again, if you have a very long run between switches, going a little larger is less likely to cause problems with voltage loss. LGB throttles 51070, 52120 and 52121 will all work with the 50061 and other LGB transformers. If you are using only LEDs for lighting, you could get away with even less. Many load and unload freight from specially designed cars as well. If they do, follow their recommendations. Lionel Trains Pocket Price Guide 1901-2022. As you can see, a lot of great helpers here. The 1033 is not the same as the 1044. Another classic is the Automatic Gateman. Now, I diconnected that old dinosaur and connected two separate smaller ones which weren't powerful enough to run my Amtrack MTH trains. The higher powered units would not meet todays safety standards as issued by Underwriters Laboratories. To participate you must either login or register for an account. In either case, however, voltage and amperage draw is low and peak for only brief periods. Price Received. I suggest that you proactively lay an 10-2 AWG NM cable (or at least 12-2) along the track and tap into it as needed to keep the voltage up. Safety first. You could have a poor connection that caused the wire to heat up. It will require a minimum of 108' of track just to do a basic rectangle before I add any switches, etc. The other type of cars are the Scale cars, which are exact or near-exact replicas of actual freight cars. A lot of people are using the MTH Z1000's who have smaller layouts while others have moved up to the MTH Z4000. Number 24 to Number20 wire will all work with most layouts. Steve's rule of thumb for derating is very close to and in the same spirit as the NEC rule that an appliance may not draw more than 80 percent of the current rating of the outlet. OTTS Founder As your needs grow, you can employ a larger transformer of fixed voltage. What size Lionel transformer do I need? The insulation on the outside of the wire also varies greatly. Fortunately, in the early 21st century it is easier to expand your starter set than ever before. God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of theNRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified. I cant see you needing more than a capacity of 5 amps. Serious or fatal injuries may result. www.spankybird.shutterfly.com, God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of theNRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified. The KW has constant voltage outputs for accessories, the ZW don't have that feature just four handles for supplying power to four tracks or accessories if you like, both have whistle & direction feature. Price Received. For instance, a 100 kilovolt-ampere transformer with 8.32 kilovolts (or less) on the high side has a typical value of 2.6% impedance. There are also numerous static accessories that do not operate but add visual interest to your layout, such as the #24219 girder bridge. An Essential Guide for Toy Train Enthusiasts! It's expensive, but the same factors that drove KW prices down are also driving ZW prices down. If youre looking for Lionel transformer comparisons, youve come to the right place. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 (or smaller) sheet of plywood, a 90-watt Lionel 1033 or 1044 is an excellent choice. Both are lighted. Classic cars have a 5 or 6 as their second digit [25051, 16686, etc]. Viola, DCS on alternate power blocks, Max signal, Happiness. By only supplying power to the trains that need it, you can greatly reduce your needs. Some of the variables are obvious, others not so much. They're controlled with a simple handheld remote control and run on easy-to-connect plastic track. It is important to remember that the real test of the power supply is the load you'll place on it. CW80 Transformer. It does not work with O27. What about removing flanges from diesel wheels? However, in the future if you continue in the hobby and your roster expands you may acquire motive power which requires larger curves than what came with your set. The smaller of the two is #12028, which turns your oval into this: There is also the larger 12031 plan, which has a couple extra straight track pieces included, creating this: Even better, one or more of the expansion sets can be combined to create even more interesting track layouts. The Lionel 1033 is a great choice for small or medium-sized layouts. If you plan to add a second loop for another train in the near future, the 14198 would be a wise investment. Are you looking for a product or serviceif so, then read this BEFORE you post! Of all the questions fielded by the staff of Classic Toy Trains, inquiries regarding layout wiring top the list.While you might expect numerous questions regarding complex techniques or new technologies, CTT. For Lionel power the 45 watts is good for a 4 by 8 as a rule of thumb to compensate poor track you just use more feeders. Classification/marker lights on the PRR steam engine, For Sale: Lionel 6-11127 Legacy Southern Pacific GS-4 Daylight, Lionel Bethlehem Steel slag car and ATLAS NYC Baggage car, Lionel O 2333790 TrainWorld & RBP Trains Chris Raines -Exclusive - Katy LEGACY ES44AC #2021, Converting MTH Rail king GS-4 PROTO 2 to ERR Cruise Commander, The Harpers Ferry Layout II - Backdrop panels completed. Like command control, these trains still require a constant voltage to the rails. Digital command control systems (DCC) uses digital information to control the electrical power to the train. If you have time, check out the "Coffee Pot". It has FasTrack connectors on one end and O Gauge track pins on the other. QUOTE: by Skyray "Typical engineer--you need a technician. In most cases, stranded wire is preferred because the multiple threads provide more conductivity and flexibility. Our community is FREE to join. As your layout grows beyond the basic oval of track that comes with most starter sets, a good power distribution network is essential to getting consistent performance from your train all the way around. Ryan developsmodeltrainlayouts for public andprivate display. That might work, but it's probably borderline, especially if you are using something like a 1033 transformer that tops out at 16 volts. Lionel Postwar 1033 Transformer Watch on Because the runs are short and power demands so low, this fine wire poses no safety threat. Past,presentand future. the amount of track is not what is important here. At an average 14 volts - this is 9x14 = 126 watts - the ZW is getting quite warm and I have not run an accessory or another train yet! There are a few standards when it comes to the color-coding. Length of track or type of track doesn't (or shouldn't) matter. To determine the maximum transformer current, divide the transformer VA by transformer secondary voltage. Mark. "O" Gauge is what Lionel is today, along with "O27". Best bang for the buck for command are the Lionel 180W Powerhouse bricks IMO. A small set that came with track, transformer, etc. If you have a very long run, you may want to consider Number 12 wire. The larger transformers could operate up to four trains independently. Expanding the basic oval from the set is the quickest way to add more interest to your trains. If you fried a wire going to the track it may not be a transformer problem. Faq No: 1029 Wow.thanks for all the advice so far, guys!! One rail is positive, the other negative. Can't plug into outlet? (using 4 of the 180 watt Lionel bricks) That's 10 amps per channel on all 4 channels. Is there anyway of saying how much track it will power? All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. Doug Murphy 'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers' Henry V. I am a person with a very active inner child. --Build a Better Toy Train Layout, by John Grams and Dick Christianson. Lionel CW80's can be found for around $50 at Greenberg and other train shows. Make your Christmas complete with a Lionel HO Train under your. . For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 sheet of plywood, a 90 watt Lionel 1033 or 1042 is an excellent choice. Lionel is also introducing a new 180 watt transformer to accompany the 80 watt CW 80. As your needs grow, you can employ a larger transformer of fixed voltage. Daniel Defense firearms, parts and accessories, http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=9670, http://www.modeltrainforum.com/album.php?u=2334, 14X16 Switching style [url]http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=8241, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkMHvbckuBLo3pJN1FGE1Gg. Although not necessarily a mandated standard, white, black and or red are used for track power on most layouts - if for no other reason than these colors are easiest to find. Lionel and other train manufacturers have worked hard to make adding to a set easy, affordable, and fun. Mint-in-box examples of vintage Lionel trains are still valuable and will continue to appreciate in value over time, because there are so few of them. Lionel has a new 180 watt transformer due out soon that will be a nice upgrade. Ryan developsmodeltrainlayouts for public andprivate display. For a passenger train with lighted cars, getting a little more power isnt a bad idea. They are known as HO train sets because they are half the size of O-guage. Transformer sizing for new systems It states: 1.25 amps for each motor, 0.2 amps for each bulb. I have noticed that my old transformers do not work well or not work at all with newer electronic whistle tenders. * NOTE: We do not recommend loading a transformer above 80% of its KVA rating. Do not operate the CW-80 Transformer with a damaged cord, plug, or case. Price Received. Just not quite as much. The CW-80 Transformer was meant to operate on 120-volt, 60-Hertz power. This signifies compatibility with 50 Hertz power. They run on O Gauge track, but they are not exact O Scale cars. Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month, WELCOME TO THE FORUM Mike!! If this happens, you will need another transformer to share the load. 40-200 20 Watt DC Transformer - Small DC transformer suitable for powering a single HO diesel or steam locomotive equipped with Proto-Sound 3.0. To determine the required transformer VA, multiply the secondary voltage by the required amperes: For example, VA=Volts x Amperes or 28V x 1.2 amperes = 33.6 VA. To determine the maximum transformer current, divide the transformer VA by transformer secondary voltage. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Like tankist stated.It's only running multiple engines that I run into issues. And that means theyre affordable. You have pretty much pointed up the major problem, everything is different. Likewise, if you only want to run one train at a time, you can keep other trains on the track by wiring with blocks, and turning off trains that are not in use. What type is your old transformer? Three conductor wire is common for household use. With multiple switches, lights, power supplies and more all concentrated in a small space, color coding and neatness pay off. Obviously, for a lot of people, the $700 Lionel ZW-L transformer is overkill. I talk more in depth about the 1033 here. The multi-conductor wire is also available. Which Lionel transformer do I need? you ask? Traditionally, Lionel trains run on AC but there are exceptions. This set also includes an uncoupling track section, which will disconnect cars from one another at the touch of a button, and a bumper, which keeps cars from rolling off the end of the track. The new Lionel ZW-L is getting a lot of good reviews and is a very powerful transformer for most layouts. It is also a good idea to run your accessories off of a separate power supply and wire grid from the trains themselves. All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. I recently read an article/product review in the OGR magazine for the new Lioneltransformerand wassurprisedto learn that not all voltage outputwave-formsare created equal (pure sine wave versus some type of clipped sine wave). (Electrical Contractor with dear old Dad for 30 years) Regards Steve. A large number of the Lionel Collectors Club UK use this set up to good effect. Not unlike the relationship between the locomotive engineer and the fireman. Most two-rail track systems use direct current (DC). Sell Your Trains Using a Live Auction House. --Heck, watching one train run is great, Ill bet TWO would be even more fun! HO trains are very durable and are made with high quality parts and pieces to ensure the longevity of the Lionel train brand! The same is true for other electronic projects around your layout and inside buildings, train cars, and even locomotives. My current layout uses about 28 sections of track (Lionel o-27). Over the years I have collected boxed(mostly liquor boxes) sets from attics.So I have a variety of transformers on hand. Part of the Lionel line since the 1930s, the gateman today is offered not only with a regular railroad-type figure, but also in versions with Santa Claus and a nutcracker figure for the Christmas season. They are fun to have. THE BASICS "O", "S", "HO". As cheap as the 1033 is, if youre going to buy a transformer, you might as well pay a few dollars more to get a 1033. Most power supplies will perform very well for years if used within their limits. On the flip side, the new transformers do not seem to work as well with the prewar whistle tenders.Has anyone else noticed this anomaly? 40-500 50 Watt AC Transformer - 50 Watt AC transformer suitable for . While better starter sets usually include a more robust transformer, as a general rule the power pack supplied with your starter set is just thata start. While most of the American Flyer products are re-issues using old Gilbert tooling from the 1950s, the O scale equipment is a combination of new designs and reissues. I don't want to buy a lot more track, but then find out the transformer is too weak, if that make sense. The transformer included with your starter set should be adequate to handle a modest expansion of your train set discussed above. I have a 3amp, 40watt transformer. My question is this in order that this doesn't happen again what type of transformer would you recommend? If the voltage drop in the track is more than a small fraction of the transformer voltage, that is, a volt or two, you are going to have trouble running the trains anyway. There have been issues with chopped waveform transformers, i.e. However, if you begin adding more than 1 or 2 cars, be sure to get some extra track, or your longer train will be chasing its tail very quickly. JavaScript is disabled. Are you running command or conventional? --Toy Train Collecting and Operating, by John Grams. Today Lionel includes the same basic track oval in all starter sets8 36-inch diameter curve sections, 3 10 straight track sections, and 1 10 straight terminal section, which create this layout: Until recently, to add to this layout, you would need to buy separate straight, curved, and other track sections and wing it in creating a larger setup. :-). Here at Trainz, we carry all of the products you will need to go from a starter set to a miniature railroad empire. But a 12-gauge solid wire is one strand, while a 12-gauge stranded wire may be made up of more than a dozen much smaller individual strands spun together. Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month, Calculating transformer size for layout size. Sign up for new product releases, promotions, and more. The backside of a control panel can turn into a "rat's nest" of wiring very quickly. There isn't a one-size-fits-all solution, so you'll need to consider what you want to do and measure your options accordingly. At auction, Lionel train sets, pieces, and accessories can sell for a few hundred dollars or for a few thousand dollars, depending on the rarity and condition of the piece. And of course, individual Fastrack sections are also available. I have had the same problem. That said, if youre uncomfortable fixing a transformer, I wont look down on you for buying one someone else fixed up. Then the K's will do siding and switching yard duty. The house's current is reduced to the required low voltage by Trainmaster Transformers. A locomotive on a mile-long loop will draw as many amps as it does on a 4x8 platform. It will require a minimum of 108' of track just to do a basic rectangle before I add any switches, etc. Over the years I have collected boxed (mostly liquor boxes) sets from attics.So I have a variety of transformers on hand. They are fun to have. This is where the Lionel transformer comparisons should begin.